7 Responses to De film 2602

1. Blauwvogeltje schreef:

   22 januari 2009 om 10:13

   Derk, merci voor de correctie over de foto….
   Zoals ik eerder uitlegde, mij lijkt het dat 3 indo’s geen juiste afspiegeling is van de werkelijke aantallen …
   De stichting hoopt in augustus de film op de Nederlandse TV te krijgen.. 15 augustus ?

   Beantwoorden
2. Derk HilleRisLambers schreef:

   22 januari 2009 om 09:07

   Nog een reactie op Blauwvogeltje van 21 januari 23:07 uur
   Ik citeer: “Ik heb de film niet gezien,” … “had ik de indruk dat indo’s te weinig in beeld waren”
   Ga die film zien! Hij draait op 1,2,3 februari in Hilversum zie http://www.japanseburgerkampen.org, klik op Vertoning “Het Jaar 2602”
   Citaat: “Ik ken geen cijfers van een deskundig onderzoek.. Ik doe maar nattevingerwerk” … “20 á 40 %?”
   Dat vraagteken is terecht. Ikzelf heb nergens statistieken gezien en waag mij niet aan ongefundeerd nattevingerwerk.
   “Dan had je van de 19 geinterviewde kampkinderen 4 tot 7 indo’s moeten hebben.”
   U wordt goed bediend, het waren er tenminste drie. Ik herhaal: ga die film gewoon zelf zien!

   Beantwoorden
3. Derk HilleRisLambers schreef:

   22 januari 2009 om 06:52

   Ik reageer op Blauwvogeltje 21 januari 23:07
   De geplaatste foto uit het pdf bestand is van enige jaren VOOR de oorlog, slaat niet op een jappenkamp. Mij zijn geen foto’s bekend uit jappenkampen tijdens de Japanse bezetting – of het zouden propagandafoto’s moeten zijn.

   Beantwoorden
4. Blauwvogeltje schreef:

   21 januari 2009 om 23:07

   Ik heb de film niet gezien, maar uit de reacties van mensen die de film zagen te Amsterdam, inclusief een journalist van het
   Reformatorisch Dagblad… had ik de indruk dat indo’s te weinig in beeld waren en dat de filmmakers en de voorzitter van de stichting het aantal indo’s in de burgerkampen onderschatte..
   Deze reactie van de stichting bevestigt die eerste indruk..
   100.000 burgergeinterneerden, 42.000 militaire geinterneerden (steeds meer ook burgers in die powkampen)
   Hoeveel van die 100.000 was indo?
   Ik ken geen cijfers van een deskundig onderzoek.. Ik doe maar nattevingerwerk:
   tussen de 20.000 en 40.000 ? = 20 á 40 %?
   Dan had je van de 19 geinterviewde kampkinderen 4 tot 7 indo’s moeten hebben.
   
   Deze foto uit een jappenkamp staat in in een pdf-file van de stichting verfilming japanse burgerkampen .
   Ik tel 6 of 7 indokinderen van de 20 ? Dat illustreert dan wel mijn schatting. (ook een blond kind kan best nog wel indo zijn)
   —-
   Dit schreef het Reformatorisch Dagblad :
   “”….In de film komen alleen Nederlanders aan het woord (totoks) en vrijwel geen gemengde Indische Nederlanders (Indo’s). Kritiek hierover snapt Van der Dussen, maar volgens hem stopten de Japanners alleen de Nederlanders in de kampen en bleven de bruinere Indische Nederlanders er buiten. ….””
   ——-
   Jammer dat de woorden van van der Dussen niet letterlijk zijn weergegeven en van der Dussen niet duidelijk genoeg toelicht of ontkent in het verweer op de website van st. verfilming .. Want de bewering lijkt me indoblind… dwz geen indo’s kunnen zien.
   Wat de stichting zei dat de aankondiging omschreven als “Indische middag” een te grote verwachting schiep bij indo’s die immers een ander opvatting hebben over Indisch lijkt me wel juist.
   Maar is het verschil hier dan indo-totok ?
   Of is het meer Indische Nederlander versus niet Indische-Nederlander.
   Wel een band met Indië versus geen tot minder band met Indië..

   Beantwoorden
5. Elizabeth van Kampen schreef:

   21 januari 2009 om 08:11

   Wie kan hem helpen? E-mail: oudraadr001@hawaii.rr.co
   From: “Rolf Oudraad” <oudraadr001@hawaii.rr.co Sent: Sunday, January 18, 2009 2:42 AM
   To:
   Comment to Pig Basket Affair/Atrocities #11
   This testimony comes from Yvonne Patiwaal, who is presently 82 Years old.
   Her mother-in-law that she was referring to is: Charlotte “Lot”
   Patiwaal-Pereira who was married to Maximilian Patiwaal who was arrested
   and never seen again. Also mentioned in the testimony was my
   Grandfather’s name, “Jose Pereira”, a brother of Charlotte
   Patiwaal-Pereira. Jose Pereira had a son, my uncle, “Francisco Alvarez
   Pereira” who is now deceased, and also, a daughter, my mother, “Vera
   Yolanda Oudraad-Pereira.” From my Mother’s testimony, on the morning
   that the Kempeitai came to their family home, my mother already awake at
   the time, heard knocking at the back door, opened the back door of their
   house to be confronted by a Japaneses soldier, who asked for the
   whereabouts of her father. My mother who was only five years old at the
   time answered back, indicating that her father was still asleep. The
   soldier ordered my Mother to show him her father’s bedroom. My Mother
   began to knock at the bedroom door and spoke in Dutch awakening her
   father, when all of a sudden she was slapped in the face by the soldier
   and told her not to speak in Dutch anymore, but to speak in Indonesian.
   Startled, my Mother began to cry. With the sound of my Mother crying,
   her father opened the bedroom door to investigate, only to be met by the
   soldier. Still in his boxer-shorts and pajama shirt, my Grandfather was
   dragged out of the house and that was the last that my Mother ever saw of
   her father alive. All of the other Pereira men in family that all lived
   in Bandjermasin were also taken away except for a few that happened to be
   away at the time. Albert Pereira, my mother’s uncle, was later hidden by
   a Sultan. Wim Fiorani, a cousin of my Mother, was a KNIL Military
   Officer/Doctor and was also away and survived the war. Another Pereira,
   was later after the war an Army General placed in charge of Batavia by
   the Dutch Government. There are still other Bandjermasin Pereiras alive
   to this day and they were descendants or are the children there of. Of
   course the last names have changed for the females, but are non the less,
   a part of that long PEREIRA FAMILY history.
   To add to this, the Pereira Family originated from Macao, China where
   their family was Governor to Macao since the 1600s. And before that,
   from Portugal of course. In the mid 1700s, three sons were sent to
   Indonesia from Macao. One to Borneo and two to Java. Other Pereira
   family members went-on to Singapore. Somehow, all the Pereira Family
   from India to South East Asia are all family.
   I hope that someone will read this and reply. There’s a chance that we
   may have something in common and you may never know–we may be family.
   Aloha,
   Rolf Oudraad
   Mililani, Hawaii
   ===================================================== Eyewitnesses
   Pig Baskets Atrocity
   No 11
   Concerns Pig Baskets Atrocity
   I am married with a man from Banjermasin; the whole family-in-law is from
   Bandjermasin in Borneo. I am 82 years old, I am as from my 22nd year war
   widow from Max Patiwaal, born in Banjermasin on the 22nd of January in 1918.
   I haven’t witnessed this pig basket affair but I can tell what has happened
   in Bandjermassin.
   In Bandjesmasin was a Japanese dentist who directly when the war in the
   Netherlands Indies broke out, became a Japanese general, he had his uniform
   with him.
   So when the Japanese entered Bandjermasin, he became the head of this town.
   Before the was he was a good acquaintance and dentist from the family
   Patiwaal and Pereira. As soon as he was in power he had all the men and
   boys been interned. As also my father-in-law and his brother. And also the
   brother (José Pereira) of my mother-in-law was interned.
   When my mother-in-law wanted to visit her husband, she went to her old
   acquaintance and dentist and if she could visit her husband and the other
   family members.
   The Japanese dentist told her: “Soedah boeang laoet” Already dumped into
   the sea.
   Later on my mother-in-law (the only one who survived from the family
   Patiwaal’s and the Pereira’s) that all the prisoners were pushed into pig
   baskets and been thrown into the sea. This story comes from my
   mother-in-law, she told me this before she died.
   The whole family has been exterminated.
   My husband died when he was 25 years old in the camp Maoemere on Flores;
   according the Japanese from dysentery. His friends who have brought me his
   belongings, told me that the ill prisoners of war were locked up in pig
   baskets laid on the beach.
   By ebb tide they were laying in their defecation and by high tide everything
   was all clean again, all by itself.
   The name of the Japanese dentist is probably know, he was the only dentist
   in Bandjermasin
   from: http://www.dutch-east-indies.com

   Beantwoorden
   • Jacqueline schreef:

     2 maart 2015 om 20:14

     Dear Mr Oudraad,

     On “indisch for ever’ I saw your story about you grandfather Pereira.
     I am afraid I cannot help you in this.
     But I have another question.

     You wrote Dr Wim Fiorani, your mother’s cousin, was a medical doctor and survived the war. I hope you have some more information for me.
     A dear friend of me is looking for her sister, Erica Vogelzang. She was born and adopted in January 1950. Your cousin helped with the adoption, or maybe he adopted the baby himself.
     The baby was adopted because her father died in an accident in December 29th 1949. Her mother had 5 children and was weak. She had to find an occupation to look after he other children.
     I really hope your cousin had some documentation about this adoption.
     I hope you can help me. Please let me know.

     I would be very grateful,

     Yours sincerely,
     Jacqueline Raeven

     Beantwoorden
     • Boeroeng schreef:

       2 maart 2015 om 21:04

       Jacqueline,
       Try to email him: oudraadr001@hawaii.rr.co
       Or ,post a message to him at this site: https://www.facebook.com/groups/old.dutch.indonesian.community/